A Comprehensive View of Biblical Application in Counseling

A Rhombus University Live Presentation
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Dr. Julie Hayden:
Welcome everybody. My name’s Dr. Julie Hayden, and I will be presenting this evening. We are going to be looking at a comprehensive view of biblical application in counseling. So, as you know, this is a passion we have why Rhombus University is here. It comes from a lot that we saw along the way, Dr. Ray and I, in our path coming to our degrees, as well as to how we intervene and help people. So, we’ll bring some of that to you tonight. And it could definitely be an open discussion if you have questions along the way, and we’ll save plenty of time at the end too, to kind of bring it into application. So, we’ll go ahead and jump in, get started. At first, I want to kind of pull it up here. I’m just going to do something real quick on my screen.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Okay. I want you to picture kind of coming above everything and having a top view. So, you’re looking down and we’re going to kind of go down. And we’ll look at some of the details, but first we’re going to start just big picture. So, in all of this, we’re going to be looking at a Genesis worldview. We’ve talked about this before, so we’ll look at it again, but looking at a literal creation story at a scripture that people are created by God, and what that means, is going to unfold in how we view humans, how we intervene, and a lot of themes that will come into counseling. So, we’re going to look at a Genesis worldview. We’re also going to look at the Christian as a counselor. And so there’s things that we’re going to bring to the table in a counseling setting that are very unique and very effective in helping people.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, we’re going to kind of see what that looks like. We’re also going to look at Christianity in the counseling profession. So, we’re going to see it from a perspective that who we are, as we could say Christian, but I do think that term is used lightly sometimes. So, the concept of see the Bible as God’s word, having a relationship with God and using scripture and how we view humans out of scripture in this profession. What does that do? How does it affect it? We’re also going to look at principles for health and living, and then we’re going to dive into some specifics with applying scripture. So, these could all be seen as ways that we have biblical truth, Bible knowledge applied in counseling psychology. And so we could take each one separately as something that’s very valuable. And then what we’re going to find broadly out of all of it is that these are all complex reciprocal, multifaceted. That when we say Christian counselor or biblical counselor or biblical integration or applied biblical psychology or any term we come up with, it’s going to have a complexity to it.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Partly because people are complex as well as the topic entering into it can be seen from many different perspectives, probably all perspectives quite valuable, but tonight we’ll take a look at a few. And one of the goals will be for you to start developing what this does look like for you. You’ve had speakers throughout the last few weeks, and for some of you here longer, years, that they share what this looks like for them. So, there can be a personal aspect to it. And yet there’s going to be some themes that will bring value to anybody. So, we’ll look at some of those themes tonight as well. So, let’s jump in.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
We’re going to take some time here. Now, the PowerPoint is just to keep me on track. So, it’s nothing fancy, but I want to take you on a picture of the Genesis model visually without the PowerPoint. So, you can just use your imagery right now to just go back in this idea that God creating humans perfect in his image, that this was God’s special creation that at first he’s creating sun, moon and stars. He’s separating water from land. He’s creating animals, all of these amazing creations. He’s looking at each one and he’s saying, this is good. And then he gets to humans and it’s something different. It’s created in his image. And at first it’s not good for man to be alone when he just created Adam. And then he created Eve out of Adam and said, go multiply and subdue the earth.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, in this creation story, you have very early on, as we’ve talked before, kind of the purpose of humans and even God, and how he handles humans and what he does with humans, he walks with them. He talks with them. They have a relationship and he’s creating and naming and labeling, and then turns over to humans and says, you go do this. So, he passes the baton to Adam and he passes the baton to take care of the land and to dominate subdue the earth and that’s before the fall. But even after the fall, he says, go multiply and subdue the earth. So, kind of this concept of humans as leaders, humans as managers, humans and this family unit was right there in creation. So, a lot of, we’re going to look later, a lot of the deep questions of psychology are answered in scripture, and that’s a powerful tool we’ll be able to use.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
We’ll look at in the future. So, we have right there in the Genesis worldview, this idea of a design for humans, I’m going to go to the next PowerPoint. We look at these four things in more detail over here. So, even though we start with this perfect creation, obviously we know sin enters the world, and what you have is Satan already on earth. We don’t know fully exactly what he’s doing, watching creation or the timing of it all. But we see immediately he goes to disrupt what God has done. So, you have man woman. And God’s saying, go multiply and subdue the earth. And here comes Satan, deceiving Eve, and eventually Adam rescued, jumping in after eat with her mistake, eating of this apple, and here we have sin enter the world. And it has all these consequences. This is a key moment in scripture that so much of what we see today in the problems of humans, where it comes from.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Sometimes you have the extreme views in all different ways of what it means to be a Christian counselor, but definitely you might see what component of this mental illness is sin. You see this in addictions, like we were just talking about. What component of all this is sin? Sometimes it may not be a person’s individual sin, but from a Genesis world view, you see it is sin broadly, that we were cursed. And as you kind of go through what was cursed, the whole world’s cursed, it’s all falling apart. It’s only going to get worse. You’re going to have death, pain and suffering. You see there’s a curse to man that he’s going to have to work hard. There’s a curse to woman, pain and child bearing and wanting her husband and her husband ruling over her. So, there’s these curses to men and women.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
There’s a curse to Satan. And the curse to Satan is that there’ll be war between Satan’s seed and women’s seed. And you can see that kind of war that still exists today, genetic, sexual, biological. Now we just talked before we started this class, we just talked about the biology of trauma and addictions. In Genesis with the fall of mankind and sin entering the world, you have our biology affected, our bodies are cursed and falling apart. So, it all ties in. We have a reason for what we’re looking at, and it informs us differently than those that don’t have the truth of scripture to look at some of what we’re seeing. So, we can see that our biology is going to be affected. We see that the war against Satan and humans is really fundamentally against the family unit. So, you’ve got man woman offspring. Go multiply and subdue the earth.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Then you have Satan attacking and you have this war, this enmity described between Satan’s seed and woman’s seed. Satan trying to stop what is prophesy, that Jesus would come to the genetic lineage of Eve, that Jesus would come and conquer Satan and restore that relationship that we need between God and humans. So, you have this right there in the first three chapters of Genesis so much, we’re just touching on it, but you can see broadly how we view people, how we view mental illness, how we view sin in the world. Can be informed in a powerful way. We are going to expect suffering. We’re going to expect death. We’re going to expect that our bodies will fall apart, will have chemical imbalances. And I think one of the most important things from us also in kind of where we wanted to go with a profession and a future for our life, as well as what we take with us, business or university or anything, is that there’s a war against the family that the family right there in Genesis was God’s chosen mechanism.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
It’s what he wanted for humans on earth. And it was attacked initially. And it’s still being attacked today. That if you look at the kind of scattering of difficulties we may have to help people with. There’s a theme that rises above. So, you might have domestic violence, human trafficking. You might have those that have abortions and the consequences of that, or those struggling with a gay identity. You might have divorce where marriages are falling apart. You have pornography like the consequences of addiction to pornography. You have addictions, substance abuse. You have PTSD, guys coming back from the military. Not tied specifically to a sin, but the consequences of PTSD does end up oftentimes disengaging that person from his family. So, you have this attack against the family that might not always be so direct. And yet the consequence is there. Broadly in our society we can see that we have a breaking down of the family unit and how that has impacted all of society.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, with this broad perspective, just to kind of throw it in here as we’re, it kind of fits nicely. For us in a lot of what we did in trying to come both in education, training in the community, as well as us personally, or as counselors is, how do we go on the offense? If Satan’s attacking families to destroy families, how can we turn around and strengthen families? And then we end up with a profession, not only education, but also a profession that, that’s our number one job is to figure out how to help people be healthy and strengthen their families. So, kind of fun to tie in to what road you’re on right now in a very powerful way. Now, right there in Genesis, we also have a prophecy of Christ and his ability later in time, and or already has done now, to conquer sin and death, to restore the relationship.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
You have God becoming human, entering his creation to rescue it, to pay the penalty. The only penalty that could be paid for us to be restored to him. So, now look at broad picture. What this does to humankind. It gives us hope. It gives us purpose in the world, and you have many verses that address that, the purpose of humans on earth. And so we get these answers of very deep questions of psychology right there in Genesis one through three. So, that’s what we call a Genesis world view, very broad. It helps us view humans, relationships, sin, death, all from this kind of broad perspective of how God unfolded this adventure with humans on earth. Any questions on this before we jump and go a little bit, we’re going to kind of go down to more concrete ways we can apply scripture in counseling.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Okay, we’ll keep going, but we’ll come back and have some time for each one of these. So, now let’s look at this concept of us believers in the counseling world, us who we are. I’m going to say this broadly, and we’ll go into each a little bit more detailed, but it’s interesting for us to consider. If you looked at natural qualities, if you had a mature believer, somebody that saved and has a relationship with God, what did they look like? We’re going to look at that. Number one, powerful, amazing, cutting edge, different than all the rest power we have is the holy spirit. It’s a game changer. He is a game changer. So, we’ll look at that. We have spiritual gifts promise and scripture to each believer. We have a life dedicated to helping others heal, very powerful. And then we have Christ’s example we’ll look a little bit at.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, let’s look at some natural qualities. So, this concept came as I taught classes, just looking at what, if you put on a board all the qualities you will want of an effective counselor, and you went back to circle the ones that you would hope to have in a mature believer is very, very similar that this comes to us naturally. We’re going to look in just a moment, just about history too, where for years the Christian Church was where people went to for help. It is what we in scripture, it’s kind of a core purpose we were called to. And so we have natural qualities. It’s not for every Christian, but if you considered a Christian that knew their Bible, had a relationship with God and was mature in their faith, the qualities that you would find in that person would be nicely set up to be one of the most effective counselors you could imagine.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
I could believe that you would feel comfortable as a person going to that person as a counselor. So, I have a few here, but there’s so many more. Give me any others that you can think of. I’ll get this PowerPoint in. No, I’ll do it later. I’ll give you the PowerPoint link. I do have it, but here, a good listener, somebody with wisdom, a caring person, empathetic, compassionate, someone who has hope. To me, this is a big deal. I work with addictions. We know this so sometimes hope is a difficult aspect when you have extreme populations. I have so much hope. It’s not hard at all for me to have hope. There’s many amazing people I have seen that have turned their whole life around. But when you know you have the God of the universe capable of transforming a life and that he promises, I mean, the whole aspect of a description of somebody that was not saved, who received salvation is somebody who was the old self and now is a new self.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
You have a new creation in Christ. So, that’s exactly the definition of somebody getting saved is this is going to be a whole new person. And some of us have watched many examples of that, but we have the power of the holy spirit to transform a life. So, for me as a therapist, I have more hope than I could ever imagine. So, we have a cutting edge experience as a counselor because of that hope we have for everybody. Boundaries, confrontation. These are just some of the qualities. Is there any, and you can put in the chat box too. Any other qualities that you can think of that are just kind of naturally tied to both a mature believer, as well as somebody who would make an effective counselor?

Speaker 2:
Discernment.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Discernment. Yes. I’m bringing that in soon with the holy spirit, because yeah. These are top shelf tools. Discernment.

Speaker 3:
What comes to my mind is peace, especially peace that passes all understanding coming from the holy spirit also.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Absolutely. There’s a time we had a conversation, Dr. Ray and I, about what would you sum up in one word of what people are seeking when they come for therapy? No matter what they’re coming to therapy for, what would be one word you could sum it up? And I believe it’s peace. You think of addictions, anxiety, depression. I mean, you just list everything. If they had a magic wand and they could have one thing, what would they want? Peace. Absolutely. And we have access to that.

James:
I think patience is a quality.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yes. Yes. That’s a great one. Patience. And in some versions, long suffering, I love that word.

James:
Yes. Long suffering.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5:
I think of one, which I kind of go back and forth with it. Maybe, because I’m not there yet, but confidence that not necessarily like confidence of course in the holy spirit that he’s the one that’s going to answer and not necessarily us alone, if that makes sense.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
I love that and I think that’s a good word for it too, because think about it. Do you want to go to a counselor that is not confident, they’re unsure. They’re not quite sure that they can help you. Now that’s common with a new therapist. I mean you aren’t confident yet sometimes, but when you are a believer you have a different level of confidence sometimes. Of course it depends on your relationship with God. But there are Christians who may be new to the field that carry about themselves with a different type of confidence because of their foundation they have. That they don’t have to fear like others may because of what they have in God, in their relationship with God. Very good.

James:
Yeah, to interchange that word, we can use the word fate.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yes, absolutely. Yep. Okay. I’m going to keep going, because there’s so many good things, but you could see how each one of these points we could go further on and we will throughout the weeks. I think it’ll be good to come back and do layers on this. So, here’s top of my list, even though I put it second, for some reason, the Christian as a counselor and the holy spirit. So, the power of the holy spirit in how we can use them in counseling is also complex, it’s more than one way. So, here’s a few, but I imagine we could unfold this for a whole class. So, obviously we have prayer and being led by the holy spirit. There are many, many times that more times than not, not is when usually I can feel it negatively, but I’ll start with prayer starting my day, knowing I’m going to be going into counseling, starting my counseling session.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And you have the power of God through the holy spirit to help you know exactly what to ask, exactly which direction to go to. Now, God’s God. He could do whatever he wants to. He doesn’t have to lead you where he wants you with a particular person, but at least in my personal experience, he does every time. If I pray and I ask him to show me where to go with a particular client, that happens. That’s amazing to be able to have the ability to pray and let the holy spirit lead and direct to in that you might not catch in your human spirit. That’s powerful. And we have this idea of when somebody’s not saved versus when they are saved. And then even when you’re saved, you have that war inside you of either being in the spirit or in the flesh.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
That is something that can come in that for some of this, you do need to be right with God. You need to have that relationship cleaned up in how scripture describes it, confess in your sins and various ways. I didn’t plan for that. So, I’m not going to go into detail, but when you’re right with God and you’re in the spirit and not in the flesh, powerful things can happen. And have discernment. I’m going to talk about the spiritual gifts. So, every believer has access to discernment because they have the holy spirit. And then there are those that have spiritual gifts of discernment we’ll look at. And that’s powerful. And I have seen just anecdotally that it does seem counselors, those that are drawn to the profession many times have that spiritual gift of discernment. And we’ll look at that in a moment.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
But with the holy spirit we have discernment. We can tell, we have the ability to tell truth versus a lie. Now think of that for a moment, because we have scripture, first of all. So, a lot of what we can decide if something truth or a lie could come from scripture and then we have the holy spirit. But if you summed up a lot of effective therapy tools, actually CBT, EMDR, ACT, DBT, all of these, a lot of times they use phrases like changing negative thoughts to positive thoughts or irrational beliefs to rational beliefs. Whatever term they use, fundamentally, they’re trying to filter a lie versus truth every time. So, a person’s believing something from their childhood trauma that’s a lie. And that affects them biologically, that affects them how they view the world, that affects their relationships. And now we want to go back to that early trauma and process it in such a way that now they see it through the correct perspective.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And so that is discernment. That is finding a place where a person can weed out lies and replace them with truth. And so to have the holy spirit in the room, walking you through that process, that’s very powerful. We also have the holy spirit to decide mental health versus demonic influences. And we’ve had conversations like this. There really is a spiritual a war. There really is a Satan and demons according to scripture. So, this is real. So, we have the ability through the holy spirit to discern that. And each person that may look a little bit different, for me personally, I’ve never had to question it. I’ve always just known. So, whether that’s the same for every person I couldn’t say exactly. But we do have the capabilities through the holy spirit to discern demonic forces. That is something we’re capable of. Of course, maybe at different levels, depending on your belief system on casting out demons, things like that. But it’s a powerful tool we have. Any thoughts on that before I get into something really fun I want to share with you?

Dr. Julie Hayden:
There’s a phrase I wanted to get. So, I’m going to try to find it quickly. Because if I share my screen, I can’t see it. So, give me a moment if I can get to it or not. Yeah. Got it. Good. Okay. It’s there and I don’t have it. So, oh well. I’ll do the best I can here. So many people in life today are taken off guard from their path, from the goals in front of them, from what they know is right, all of that, because of the chaos around us. You have media, you have friends, family all the sources of information all around us that it’s quite easy for us to say, hey, this is what I believe. This is where I’m headed. And then something comes and takes us off guard, takes us off our path that we thought we were on.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
There’s a scripture verse. We’ll look at in a moment where it talks about being tossed to and fro. And that’s what people are oftentimes. We also have verses that we’ll look at where scripture talks about being in the world, but not of the world. That if we would have to leave the world if we didn’t have an ability to be with non-believers. And that’s what we are doing right now, especially in the counseling profession, we have to have a way to navigate this. Well, with the holy spirit, we have a way to have our path decided and nothing needs to interrupt that. We have a way through the chaos, no matter what culture says, no matter what the news says, no matter what people are saying around us, nothing has to take us off our course.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, I use the word gyroscope and this is no matter what’s going on all around. It keeps that path straight. It keeps us on path. That’s powerful. And especially as Christian believers in the field of psychology and mental health. So, no matter what the textbook says, no matter what licensing boards say, no matter what anybody says, that could be, seem to bring chaos, seem to bring confusion, seem to bring something that knocks us off path. It’s not needed. We have the holy spirit to keep us focused, to keep us knowing what’s true to keep us on path.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
That’s a huge tool for believers in this field. And so we would have to know what that means as far as having a relationship with God and then keeping that relationship with God strong. And we have this accessible to us. Now because I threw in licensing boards and things like that. I will clarify if you’re going to be under a licensing board there’s rules of the profession that we’ll have to navigate, but you can, you’ve got your gyroscope. You’ll be okay. You’ll know how to stay on track because of the holy spirit and scripture guiding you. So, we’ll look at that in a little bit more thoroughly, but that’s good for us to know we have it. We’ll be fine.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
I’m just going to bring up Ephesians 4:14 through 16, “That what we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the slight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie and wait to deceive. But speaking truth and love, we may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself and love.” In context it’s talking about being one, the Christian community being one, one minded under Christ. And then just looking at verse 14, I love, but I wanted to throw in definitely 15 of speaking the truth and love. This ties in with us knowing exactly where we’re going.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
We’re not going to be tossed to and fro and yet speaking the truth and love is how we do it. So, I love that verse in connection with this. I’m going to bring it back in later with some tools that we have when we’re believers as well. Couple more verses kind of along the lines of what we’ve been talking about with discernment. First, John 4:1, “Dear friends do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they’re from God, because many false prophets have gone into the world.” And Hebrews 4:12, “For the word of God is alive and active, sharper than any two edged sword. It penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow, it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” So, both the holy spirit, as well as scripture discerning. And this is a power we have through the holy spirit, through scripture.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Anything on this real quick, I’m going to pop it up to here. Just so you remember some of the main topics before we go on. Us having the holy spirit. I think I put up here and didn’t bring it. Let’s see, sorry guys. Life dedicated to helping others too. This is huge. So, as a Christian, we give our entire life to finding ways to help people in their pain. And we’ll look later on, sometimes it’s not bringing them to Christ right away. It’s just helping their pain now, which is an example Christ gave us. And so that’s a powerful aspect of just Christians in this field. This is where we belong. Of course we would want to give all to how we’re going to help people.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Okay. Christ’s example. So, before I read what he had talked to out in the kingdom, I just want you to picture how Christ was on earth. There’s too many verses. I didn’t put them all in here. So, I just want you to picture what did he do? As soon as he started his ministry, what was he doing to prove he’s God? What was he doing in the community that he started in and then as he traveled out? And he healed. So, he healed, he gave sight to the blind. He physically healed people that were not able to walk. And now they walked and they ran away. He healed leprosy. He physically healed. Now Christ physically healed and saved their soul. So, we hope to bring them to Christ for salvation of their soul. But he had this example before us that he healed them physically.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Now we may not have the gift of healing, but this is our whole profession is trying to give them a way to manage their pain. A way to get out of an addiction, a way to have healthy communication with their family. We’re jumping in and healing in these formats. And that I believe is modeled by Christ and how he helped. The kingdom perspective, of course, it’s Christ talking in Matthew, but he is talking about the kingdom and he says, “For I was hungry.” There’s too much to go. But I do believe in reading scripture and context. So, I would challenge you to go back and read some of these and read the whole context before. Somebody might want to look up which chapter it is. Probably 24. I don’t know why, but that came to me. But if anybody wants to figure out which chapter this came out of.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
“For I was hungered and you gave me meat. I was thirsty and you gave me drink. I was a stranger and you took me in naked and you clothed me. I was sick and you visited me. I was in prison and you came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him. Lord, when saw we the and hungered and fed the, or thirsty and gave you drink.” I’m just going to say it in my own words. “When we saw we the, a stranger and took the in or naked and clothed the, or when saw we the sick or in prison and came unto the. And the king shall answer and say unto them, verily, verily I say unto you in as much as you have done unto one of the least of these, my brethren, you have done it unto me.”

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, looking at that kingdom perspective, which I hope we do hold onto, and we keep for all that we do, when we help somebody with their mental health pain, to me, it’s in context of if they’re hungry, give them food. And those that we do to the least of these in this world, we’re doing to Christ. And this is something that can be our peace, that we can be a part of. And that it’s okay. Sometimes I say that because sometimes people feel like, well they need to get saved. It’s their eternity. Yes, absolutely. But first give them some food, help their emotional pain and see where God takes it from there.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Christians have spiritual gifts. I’m going to read a couple of these, but you know this. And you may have an idea of already what your spiritual gifts are. “Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given of them, whether prophecy let them prophesy according to the portion of their faith. Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering. Or he that teaches on teaching.” Sorry about the B. “Or he that exhorteth on exhortation. He that giveth, let him do it with simplicity. He that ruleth with diligence. He that showeth mercy with cheerfulness.”

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, look at some of these spiritual gifts that we might have. Also, that would tie in very well to a counselor role. “For to one is given by the spirit, the word of wisdom, to another the word of knowledge, by the same spirit, to another faith by the same spirit, to another gifts of healing by the same spirit, to another working of miracles and to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits”, which we talked about. “And to another diverse kinds of tongues and to another interpretation of tongues.” So, we see the spiritual gifts that could be accessible to believers.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, all of this is just to remind us of the value of believers in the counseling profession, Christians in the counseling profession, we bring so much. We have the holy spirit. We have scripture to bring truth. We have spiritual gifts given to us by God to be used in this powerful way. Anything, I’m going to go back and remind you. I’d like you to jump in here and give me some feedback on spiritual gifts on the holy spirit, on Christ’s example, as we look at a Christian in the counseling profession are natural qualities if we are strong believers. Give me some feedback on how you’re tying this in the role of a counselor in the … a Christian in the counseling profession.

Dr. Ray Hayden:
I think God will reveal it to you. Obviously, things that are going on long before that you’ll pick up on it. I mean, obviously you can have all that training possible, but bringing in the power of the holy spirit into your life, you’re going to have definitely that discernment, but you’re going to also know that it’s a spiritual warfare that’s taking place. And I think you probably are going to have an introduction to other spirits. So, not only did Christ heal, but he cast out other spirits as well.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Great point. And I would say personally, I’ve definitely experienced that. I’ve had more spiritual warfare than I could ever imagine, both in counseling and basically anything that is of value as we pursue something that we’ve known God has called us to. Spiritual attack is coming every time. And we know it, our spirits know it, this is spiritual warfare. I would say it was harder at first to distinguish between a bad day and spiritual warfare. But there was a moment where we became much more in tune to spiritual warfare and then what we needed to do. I didn’t put it in here. Although I read in preparation for this, but putting on the armor of God and that our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities. And that our armor is faith and peace and righteousness and that’s so powerful. And so when we’re preparing for war, it looks different than others. And we need to, if we’re going to be in the field, the counseling field, we’re getting warfare all over the place and we’ve got to be ready for it. Great point, Rob, anybody else?

Speaker 3:
I think one of the verses that I appreciate is I think it’s Luke five where Jesus asks the lame man, do you want to be well? And it reminds me that it’s not all dependent on us and our work, but they have to have the counseling also has a huge part of doing the work and being part of it. So, it’s not just me kind of trying to figure it all out for them, but that they have a big part in it also.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
I love that. And you could even layer it with the holy spirit having responsibility for that person. So, we do the best we can in the moment, but we’re not going to be with that person forever. So, there’s a great opportunity that we have that others may not see to not hold the weight of somebody on our shoulders, that we have a job to do our role that we have, and we’re going to do it to the best of our ability. And then when we leave that comes off our shoulder and that goes to God. He can hold the weight of somebody’s entire life and we don’t have to. And that’s powerful, because counselors often take responsibility and they feel so much pressure to help this person change their life. And if they can’t, they feel that burden, but that’s not healthy and that’s not a good way of handling it, but sometimes people don’t know what else to do. And so for us, we clearly know we can hand that person over to God and it’s okay.

James:
Dr. Hayden, one of my, I mean, I’ve experienced just being very selfless and I’m looking at the scripture that you have posted Mathew 25 and 35 and basically yielding to taking care of the people. And so as a counselor, I’ve been very selfless and almost put myself in those shoes. And what I’ve found is that the holy spirit always leads me in the right direction. And when I do that, usually when I get a new client, the walls are up, but almost immediately because of my, I don’t even want to say humble, but it is a selfless attitude. They open up so quickly and it’s because the essence of this scripture, how I’m reading it is I was hungry and you gave me meat. So, I was thirsty and you gave me drink. So, whatever the client need, I put myself in that position to receive from whoever.

James:
And I give you a little scenario. I had a child once before she was … I was doing anger management with the person and she was on only 10. And the way I got her to open up, I changed roles with her. I gave her my clipboard and I said, now I’m going to be your patient. And I want you to be my therapist. I want you to talk to me about my anger. And I just used what I knew about her, but she opened up, because it was reverse roles. And so when I get a client, I see a client, I’m reversing the role.

James:
And we can take that idea from Jesus. Jesus said, the woman that was caught in adultery, which one of you is without sin, which one of you is without fault, which one of you is without error. Whoever that is, you cast a first stone. And so when we change roles and change position, we have the same feelings, the same thoughts, the same hope that someone else would be kind and generous and nurturing to me. And in doing so, you’re going to provide for me. And then I think that’s where the holy spirit comes in. He gives us what we need to provide for them.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
I love it. And we should have had that on the list, humility. It’s powerful.

Dr. Ray Hayden:
Yeah, exactly what you were saying. And also Linda was saying is just think about that in context of our profession and just how much people deal with burnout. So, when you are dealing with people and this context of people. In context of burnout, burnout can be completely diminished because you know you have the power of the holy spirit. You’re not the only person that’s trying to rescue this person. As a matter of fact, you, you’re not trying to rescue this person. You’re just an agent of God. And so burnout is a huge aspect of this profession that we don’t actually have to participate in. It is powerful.

James:
I agree with that, Dr. Ray, I really agree with that, because I get that question. How is it that you’ve lasted so long? And I go, I have a helper that stands by my side that helps me all the time. That’s big.

Dr. Ray Hayden:
People ask us all the time. How do you deal with burnout? I’ll be honest. I don’t.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yeah. And you could say also healthy boundaries is what belongs to you, what belongs to that other person. And a lot of times, it’s what … I feel like something’s weird with my computer. Can you hear me?

Dr. Ray Hayden:
Yes.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Okay. Okay. Good. What is God’s? And that’s where I think believers in the counseling profession could take the wrong road sometimes. When the problems come is when they hold too much of the responsibility that truly belongs to God. As long as you have that clear perspective of what he’s capable of, what his role is, you can do your job well. So, some of the ethical dilemmas that come up, maybe working with somebody that isn’t fitting the value system that we come from in scripture, while when you have the concept that God is perfectly capable of convicting the whole world of sin, including the person in front of you that, that’s his role and you can give them food. You can help their emotional pain in the moment. It’s okay, because God’s the one that holds this person’s life in his authority and direction.

Speaker 7:
That’s so true. I love that, because we are [inaudible 00:46:04] together with God. And it is, we’re not the savior. We’re just here to lead and guide people along the path of righteousness. And I keep in mind the, I think it’s first Corinthians chapter 16 verse 14 that says, “Let all things be done in love.” Everything we do, if we do it in love, then we would be patient. We would be kind, we would be humble. We would be long suffering. And we would keep that person in our prayers, I say, before the throne of God, because like the Bible says, Paul planted Apollos watered, but it was God that gave the increase. So, we can be striving and striving and striving. And we’re like the little hamster running on the wheel. But it is God that gives the increase. It is God that changes us. It is God that heals us, delivers us. Don’t get me started. I’ll be preaching.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
It’s absolutely-

Dr. Ray Hayden:
I love that. I love that.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
… right.

Dr. Ray Hayden:
I love that. But you’re going to run into, in this profession, a bunch of people that are trying to be the savior, and it’s going to be very apparent to you. These people are trying to be the savior and you don’t have that burden. And it is so refreshing, because you know God is working and he’s the one that’s going to bring that increase, but you’re just a tool. And the burden that you don’t have is incredible.

Speaker 7:
Amen. That is good.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Okay. Let’s keep going. Because we got a lot, actually. This is fun. I can tell I’m going to want to do round two, but let’s keep going. See where we get. So, I want to look at Christianity in counseling profession, not you as a counselor, but Christianity. So, right now, if you took a look at psychology in particular, but even in the counseling profession, marriage and family therapy or the various licensing boards, things like that, you can still see quite a bit of animosity against Christianity for various reasons. But if you look back in time, historically, you can see the Christian Church at the foundation of what we might now look at social, I’m going to say social services for lack of a better word, but social impact. If somebody had difficulties, if they were poor, if they were orphans or widows, if they had difficulty in life, if they had physical disabilities, if they had struggles, they went to the church. That’s who helped some of the outcasts of society.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
It was the role of the church. And it shifted within history for various reasons. Those of you in that first history of psychology class, you’ll look at it a little bit, but there’s various events that happen in history where it shifted and the government was able to come in and take some of that burden. And we saw the Christian community and Christian people exiting important areas. We left education, we left sciences, we left psychology counseling. We left these key powerful areas. And that is, I think, a shame that we belong in those. That when we have truth and we can enter into science and biology and physics and education and politics, all of these things, that it would improve those professions. Even if you look just in science some of what Christian scientists gave is powerful.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, I’m not going to go too far into that, other than to say, this was our profession. And then it shifted and it was taken or we gave it up. I don’t know. But I definitely see the opportunity to take it back. That we have an advantage as believers in the counseling field. We see it from what we’ve gone over so far and we’ll go over more. We can be very effective, possibly more effective. I would say yes, but of course, if I was looking at somebody that was coming from a non-biblical standpoint, they might say, you’re just like others. I think from what we’ve just gone over, we could be better and more effective with what we bring to the table. And so we should be in the middle of that field and we should be in the middle of science and studying humans and understanding God’s creation from this perspective of psychology.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
It also creates a relevance that I think is very powerful. You can see kind of just broadly in our society today, there’s a shift somewhere along the way where it’s harder, I believe, for the outside community to recognize the relevance of church. So, before the church was still very relevant, because again, if everything’s going well, you might not care. But when you are outcast, when you were poor, when you were having significant difficulties in your life, you could go to the church and get help. So, there was that relevance and that shifted. So, now what is the relevance of church to someone else that doesn’t have a context of Christianity? It’s becoming harder to see. So, if we are here are in this field, it brings the type of relevance. If we are very good at what we do, we’re Christians, people can know that, and yet, let me help you with your addiction.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Let me help you with your bipolar. Let me help you with your parenting. Let me help you. And those tools work. And now that person sees the relevance of us and Christianity in this profession. So, again, that doesn’t necessarily bring somebody to Christ, but it can expand their view and their openness and their understanding that Christians belong right smack here in the middle of the counseling profession. There’s another concept here that kind of is the flip side of that is us looking at being in the field. And that is this concept of you will know them by their fruits. And this is a principle throughout scripture. We’re going to look at a couple versus that talk about it, but let me just see if the verse is there. Okay. Yeah. Let me read this one. It’s worth it. We’ll talk about the parable of the talents in a moment.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
But Matthew seven, “Beware false profits, which come in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather thorns or figs of thistles? Even so, every good tree bringeth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth fourth evil fruit, a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth forth good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” So, this is a powerful concept repeated in scripture and other areas that when you hear a person talking, when you see anything, you can filter quickly by saying what’s their fruit, what’s their outcome. So, I want to bring this concept to the profession. For example, EMDR, you all have heard me talk on and on about it, but I know EMDR by its fruit.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And so it’s a principle we can filter, shall we say the crap versus the good stuff. So, what’s the fruit? What’s the evidence? Is something working or not working. So, that is a powerful tool, I believe, in our field as us as Christians as we dive into studying humans and seeing what works well for people, is it works. Let’s use it. It is a concept that we can stick to. If you look at an apple tree, I guarantee you there was an apple seed. There’s some things, what goes here comes out here. So, when we look at something in the field and we go, wow, that’s effective. That works well. I believe as believed that’s something we can use. It doesn’t go against scripture.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Most likely what I’ve seen big picture is it’s built into how God created people in the first place. Like CBT working so well. And then understanding how God created humans, looking at verses that address the power of thought and how we view everything, it fits. So, that’s something that we can use as a tool to kind of filter through what we’re going to take with us in tools is does it work? Is it effective? And as I’m talking, maybe a stretch, but I love it. I love the concept of you’ll know them by the fruits for many other ways. Anybody have any comments on that though? Dr. Ray, I know you love it. I don’t know if you’re available to talk, but you can add more to it if you want.

Dr. Ray Hayden:
Yeah, I would love to. So, I teach this in my leadership class and to me, one of the scriptural ways to measure yourself and other people, which is a biblical concept is you cannot fake fruit. So, if you are a counselor, you need to be taking people from point A to point B and looking for tools that take people from point A to point B. And that to me is what we’re called to do. We’re called to show fruit in our work. Why? Because it’s very difficult to fake fruit. And so Christ was showing, look, a lot of people talk, a lot of people say a bunch of things, but at the end of the day, don’t even look at that.

Dr. Ray Hayden:
What you can look at is their fruit, because that doesn’t lie. The fruit doesn’t lie. So, look for tools, look for techniques that bear fruit. And that’s one way I … that’s why we … you’re right about EMDR. I was skeptical at first about EMDR as well. And then I seen the results of it. And I’m like, boom, let’s learn EMDR. Why? Because people were getting healed by it. So, you can’t fake fruit. So, if there’s a tool or a technique to take someone, their family, their child trauma, anything from point of A to point B, you can’t fake that. It’s impossible. And that was from scripture. I hope that clears that up.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yeah, absolutely. And I put here the parable of the talents too, just with that concept of basically pouring in using, without fear, without holding back all that we’ve been given. And it’s a parable, so Christ talking about the kingdom and in all of these, the fruits as well, and telling the story of a man leaving his vineyard. And he gives each guy a different level. I couldn’t read it. It was too long, each talent money and it might be like, I don’t remember one, three and five, something like that.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And then after however long he comes back and the one that was given five, he did all kinds of things with it and grew it tremendously. The one that was given three did a lot with it and grew it, the one that was given one hid it in the dirt. And he talks about that is like you could have at least invested it. And his point is something, anything, but you took what you were given and you hid it and you did nothing with it. And then the concept of, to whom, yes, what is it, given more? Help me out guys.

James:
How much is given [crosstalk 00:59:17]-

Speaker 7:
Much is given, much is required.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yes. And so that’s an application, I think it ties into counseling as application to believers in context of the kingdom, but definitely I think it could fit here where we get a chance to pour in our talents to this profession. And just thinking of wanting to be … it’s the verse that comes in, isn’t that the one that’s my good and faithful servant? Well done, my good and faithful servant. I guess I should have put it. It was just longer.

Speaker 3:
Yes. That’s the end of that. Well done.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yes, yes.

Speaker 3:

[inaudible 01:00:05]

into the joy of the Lord.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yes. Yes. So, in context of what we’ve been given, whether it’s our spiritual gift, our intellect, our counseling ability. The path he’s given us, the opportunity he’s given each of you to be here getting a master’s degree, pursuing licensure. And then what comes after that is that concept of wanting to invest without fear, all that we can. And to have him come to us at some point and say, well done, my good and faithful servant instead of why did you bury it all? So, that’s, again, just that concept of us as believers and Christians in this field.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Okay. Two more sections. So, I might go a little bit quick on this one. So, principles, and then we’ll go scripture. So, principles for health and life. Something I love that Dr. Ray says sometimes is, it’s amazing how pragmatic scripture is. It’s not just kind of superficial philosophical concepts, but it’s tangible, go do this in your life’s going to be better. And so we have principles and I just put some here, but in scripture, there are principles that could help improve a person’s life, whether they were a believer or not, they’re built into how God created the world, like what we had talked about is you reap what you sow. Same kind of things too, with the fruit and the whatever fruit you have planted, that’s the fruit you’re going to get. So, you reap what you sow. There’s other principles we see throughout scripture.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Like there’s a season for everything. Suffering bringing value. We have information on what it is to be a man, what it is to be a woman, the family unit. In looking at curses, we see hard work. And so we have an idea of actually an identity of a man coming from that hard work. We see the curse to women in childbearing, and we see a lot of times the identity of a woman in family and relationships. So, we can kind of see these patterns in people. And we see it in scripture. We see principles described in scripture about money, about greed, anger, language, rashness. And we’re going to look at some of those scriptures in just a moment. So, if you just read Proverbs, whether you’re a believer or not, you followed instructions.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
If you were looking at how to model a relationship, if you followed what scripture says, you’re probably going to have a better relationship than if you didn’t, even if you were not a believer. So, there’s principles out of scripture that can help anybody. And then of course, if a person’s a believer, we can take it to another level. So, that’s kind of broad those principles for health in life. And there’s many in scripture. And then there are specific scriptures, scripture on family, on marriage, on thoughts, on emotions, on communication, on parenting, on wisdom versus foolishness on suffering. Before I go into some specific verses, what are some other broad topics that scripture addresses that matches the needs we find in counseling and psychology?

James:
Relationships?

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yes. What else?

Speaker 2:
Trust.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Trust. Oh, yes. Respect actually also. Yeah.

Speaker 5:
Love. Hope.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
What else?

James:
I mean, I think scripture address all fruit of the spirit, just like Dr. Ray was talking about, the fruit, but it addresses all the fruit of the spirit.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yep. It addresses anger, drinking. There’s so much, we’re going to dive into a few, but scripture addresses so many very tangible, very applicable topics that’s valuable today. Just sex and immorality and concepts like that. It’s a very old, old scripture, and yet we could apply it and we go, yep, that’s exactly true. We can relate, we can turn around and use it in our life today. That’s fascinating. And that fits these verses here. We’re just going to look. So, scripture is God’s word to us. And so it’s powerful. And second Timothy 3:16 through 17. “All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete equipped for every good work.” And I would say, we need to be equipped for every good work if we’re in this profession, but scripture has this list of its value it gives to us.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
There’s so much that comes from scripture in filtering truth to us as well as our connection with God and the way we communicate with God, but look how much more we have accessible through scripture. And then in Isaiah 5:11, we have the verse saying, “So shall my word be that go forth out of my mouth. It shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper the thing whereto I sent it.” And so just God talking and saying his word is not going to turn up void. And that’s a promise to us. And so broadly we have the value of scripture and then we’re going to kind of in, and look at some specific ones. And so if you were working with a believer, you might actually share scripture and have scripture inform them on whatever they’re doing.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
But otherwise you have these scriptures in your mind to know the truth that you’re going to interweave into whatever therapy you’re doing with them. So, this is just an example of what scripture talks about with thoughts, “Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good rapport. If there be any virtue, if there be any praise, think on these things.” You could share this with a person or you could help them see how to do this. Whether they’re a believer or not, if they did this, it would be valuable to them. And that what does scripture say about emotions? I love this. “The hardest deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?” We need to be careful with what we trust in our emotions and what our heart says.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And so it just is something clear in scripture that we’ll see out of ACT for example evidence based theory that says emotions are just emotions. It doesn’t mean they’re saying any truth. Well, we know that because we saw that in scripture already. Ephesians five, looking at like James had said, relationships, but very specifically. First of all, “Submit one to another out of reverence for Christ.” Talking about a wife and husband relationship. “Wives, submits yourselves to your own husband as to the Lord. For the husband as the head of the wife, as Christ is head of the church, his body of which he is the savior. Now as the church submits to Christ. So, also wives submit to their husband. Husbands love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her to make her holy cleansing her by washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In the same way, husbands ought to love their as their own body. He who loves his wife loves himself.”

Dr. Julie Hayden:
On and on it goes. And so something very specific to wives and husbands and how they treat each other and how they view that relationship. Not always popular in culture. And yet, if someone followed this, it would value their relationship. “Children, obey your parents in the Lord for this is right. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise so that you may go well with you, that you may enjoy a long life on earth.” Comes with a promise. “Fathers, do not exacerbate your children, instead bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.” So, some specific concepts for both children and fathers. This one we read before, but I was emphasizing here, just communication. Whenever I teach assertiveness training, I say aggressive communication is sharing your truth and somebody’s going to lose whether you’re violent or intimidating or guilt somebody. Somebody’s going to lose when you’re aggressive.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And then I say, passive communication is you don’t share your truth. You just keep it to yourself. And I describe passive aggressive. When I come to assertive, I say, assertiveness is speaking the truth and nothing added. I get it for from scripture. If I’m sharing in a way where I can just say it’s from scripture, I will, but that concept’s straight out of scripture. And it’s powerful. It’s a tool I’ve taught many, many people. But if you speak the truth in love, your communication style is going to improve whoever you are. And then we have here Romans 5:1 through five, which I love and use, even if I can’t use it specifically from scripture. “And not only so, but we glory in our tribulations, knowing that tribulations worketh patience. And patience experience and experience hope and hope maketh not ashamed, because a love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, by the holy ghost, which is given unto us.”

Dr. Julie Hayden:
We have a path to show how tribulation leads to hope. And this is seen in research. We can prove this, but we have scripture long before anybody researched it, talking about the path and value of suffering in humans. We also are given a lot on wisdom out of Proverbs, but think how pragmatic this is. “A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds back.” How many times have you taught a client something similar? Pause, wait, take a time out, count to 10. Take deep breaths. Don’t full vent hold back. And there it is in scripture. “Listen to advice and accept instruction that you may gain wisdom in the future.” “Whoever is slow to anger has great understanding, but he who has a hasty temper exalts folly.” We have so many, all of scripture we could go through and all of Proverbs, especially, and pull out these gold nuggets that if somebody read it and did it, their life would be better.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, the specific application of scripture, where you share a scripture that relates and they take it, they memorize it, they follow it. They learn because of it, is a powerful tool whenever it’s possible. We know sometimes we can’t share scripture. Although you could say something like, well, I’ve heard it been said, “A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man, quietly holds back.” What do you think of that? You can use scripture without anybody knowing you’re using scripture. It sounds like a Proverbs, because it is. So there are great opportunities, even using exact scripture that I do believe is more powerful. Because of the verse that talks about scripture, not turning up void. If I have the ability to actually say scripture out loud, I do believe that will not turn up void. And it’s something I’ll try to do depending on the setting. So, if you can actually share scripture in your counseling sessions, it can be very powerful. Question.

James:
Yes. I comment on that. I do that all the time. I don’t give scripture text. I just incorporate it into my conversation. And I just, I start quoting scriptures, but I’m talking the scripture because I have to be … The Bible says it’s for us to be wise as serpents, but harmless as doves. So, when I’m talking scripture, particularly that not to a Christian or I’m in a particular setting, I just talk. And a lot of the talking is scripture. It’s sound scripture. And usually the comments I get is that is so wise. And I say, yeah, but that’s something I learned from someone else.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yes. Yeah. I had a-

Dr. Ray Hayden:
And kind of jump on that same point. You’re right on target. Whether you’re dealing with, and we haven’t talked, you didn’t mention this, but it’s community. When you’re talking to addicts, you’re talking community, but when you’re talking business, you’re talking networking. All that is in scripture. And those same concepts that work for family addiction with community and with business, networking, they’re all scriptural. It’s crazy.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
Yeah. And they’re brain science. So, that’s where, when we were talking initially before for a class on addiction and trauma and the brain and all this and chemicals, well, if you had trauma in your childhood, your brain as an adult would look different than a person that didn’t. And if you wanted to heal it and have it look more closely like a brain that did not have trauma, one of the best ways is healthy relationships. So, to me, that’s a biblical concept and healthy relationships rewires your physical brain. It’s just amazing. And to me, that’s like, this is our profession. We belong in here. Everything confirms scripture. Biology, psychology, studying the trends of people. It all confirms what we already see in scripture. There’s not often times we surprise because it’s all there. So, it’s fascinating and should give us great foundation and kind of like confidence secure that we are right where we belong. This is a profession we can do very well with.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
I was going to tell a story. I had a guy that was an atheist in a DV group, very negative about anything, because my counselors will say stuff here and there and they’ll sneak it in. And he just was upset if anybody said anything about God or religion or anything. And I could see a scripture verse on the whiteboard, but it didn’t have the reference. And so I watched him walk up and take a picture of it. And he is like, that’s good. He took a picture of it and left. That is so funny, because it was scripture, but it’s wisdom and it is what it is.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
I’ve got two more slides left and then we’re going to open it up here. This I just want to stand back and remember as much as we looked at our lens, how we view humans from a creationist perspective, very different, Genesis, than anything else in the world. We know this. How scripture sees family roles, all of that, very different than many in culture. So, how we view things is different. Us as who we are as believers in the field, we have this advantage because of everything we described with our natural qualities, the holy spirit, our spiritual gifts, we could see the Christianity in the counseling profession benefiting it. And then we could see actual scriptures, but that’s just such a tiny perspective. You have humans that are so complex. You have scripture that is complex, and it’s something that you could read every day, the same verse, and it could speak to you differently.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
The holy spirit could show you something. You dive in and there’s another layer and another layer. There’s so much that is very clear right there in front. And then there’s more layers and layers. So, I just want to remind you what an adventure we’re on. That this is complex, it’s multifaceted, but it’s absolutely worth researching, putting effort, time and finding your path and it will be ever changing. As much as you think you have in your mind exactly how you’re going to approach everything. You’re going to study more. You’re going to find more answers, information out of scripture and your experience that you have in the field. And it’s going to change. It’s going to mold and you’ll gain more wisdom in how you approach it. So, just kind of being ready for the journey rather than do I have the answer, but be prepared for the journey you’re about to be on with how all of this is going to tie in, because there’s so many layers. You’re going to have so much fun with it, I believe.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And I’m going to give you just a few things that you can start with on this journey. So, for one, you need a relationship with God. Not everybody coming to do these classes, or even in this school might have that. But for what we’re talking about, having a relationship with God means the holy spirit lives inside you. So, some of what we just talked about you wouldn’t have, if you didn’t have that. So, the holy spirit’s needed. So, having a relationship with God. Studying your Bible. Now, if you’re in the middle of the degree program, now it might be hard. But bottom line is you’re not going to be able to apply scripture in this powerful way without knowing it. You’re not going to be able to discern lies versus a truth without knowing scripture. Of course, the holy spirit could tell you in a moment, but scripture is where we get concrete definitions of truth.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, study your Bible. Right now you might read it, but maybe in the future you find ways to learn how to read it, how to study it to where you can apply it appropriately. Develop a path for navigating. So, as you learn, as you start counseling, in this, try to find a path that not that what you’re going to do, but if you were faced with a dilemma, how would you approach it. In your [inaudible 01:20:26] class we’re going to teach you an ethical, what is it, ethical decision making process. So, that’s exactly what we’re talking about here, but it could encompass more than just legal or ethical issues. When you’re faced with something, how do you go about deciding what you’re going to believe about it, how it’s going to fit into your mind and your worldview? How are you going to approach topics? So, if you were faced with somebody tomorrow that said something that shook the ground you’re on, you’re like, wow, this changes my whole view.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
What are you going to do about it? What’s your path that you take? Do you have people you consult with? Do you take a day to read scripture and ponder it? Do you have a concept where you’re not going to react? You’re going to be interested and look further. So, try to develop a path for navigating the complexity of psychology counseling scripture in the middle of a secular world with a culture that’s very extreme and opposing to some of the core beliefs of our faith. How are you going to navigate that? Start thinking about it. Be patient. You may not have all the answers immediately and that’s fine. What if it takes you 10 years to figure out a really good way of viewing it all? It’s fine. This is fantastic. You’re going to be able to help people. You’re going to be able to use scripture. It’s going to unfold. So, just to be patient with how you view it, what you believe, how you understand it.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
And then protect your relationship with God, because we do know there’s spiritual warfare. We do know, as some of these verses talked about, there could be wolves in sheep clothing. There could be false doctrine, false beliefs out there. So, if you have a relationship with God that’s strong, you can keep your priorities straight, relationships, family, all of that. You can filter lie verus truth really quickly. You’ll have discernment of something spiritual warfare, and you kind of need to buck up and be ready for what’s coming. You could have perseverance at a whole nother level, because you’ll need faith. And so when you have that strong relationship with God and you have access to faith so that you can move mountains, that’s powerful.

Dr. Julie Hayden:
So, these are just a few things that I could think of, of what you could do basically right away. You’re going to dive into classes, dive into textbooks, everything else. And you have this perspective that you’re starting with, but just be open, relaxed, enjoy the journey and protect you and God. And then priorities fall according to your belief system. But definitely family, if you have a family, has got to be top right under God. And off it goes in what you have in your life. But somehow that’s got to be, it’s got to be there is to protect that relationship with God.

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A Comprehensive View of Biblical Application in Counseling by Dr. Julie Hayden